Camelot
Missing important points in Camelot

Hi,

Yesterday I bought Camelot.

I think it could become the Holy Grail to the ever ongoing quest for a "total recall" solution for playing hardware synthesizers (even in combination with software instruments) in a song context.

But for now some important points are yet missing for me:

  1. More explicit support of HW synths.
    I miss:
    Novation Peak
    DSI Prophet08 REV2
    Waldorf Blofeld

  2. Possibility to link pure MIDI VST Plugins into the Midi flow of a layer before the instruments. This is very important for changing Midi data (eg. specific note/velocity scaling, musical algorithms, chords, latch, ...) before it is sent to the synth.
    Possibly this can already be done by the sequence of instruments, I'm not sure.

  3. Patch name refresh almost for Behringer Deepmind and Moog Sub37.
    A synth without patch name refresh is useless, because you always change or create a patch.

  4. Manual editing of the Patch Name lists for a synth.

Thank you.
Best regards.

Hi, Yesterday I bought Camelot. I think it could become the Holy Grail to the ever ongoing quest for a "total recall" solution for playing hardware synthesizers (even in combination with software instruments) in a song context. But for now some important points are yet missing for me: 1. More explicit support of HW synths. I miss: Novation Peak DSI Prophet08 REV2 Waldorf Blofeld 2. Possibility to link pure MIDI VST Plugins into the Midi flow of a layer before the instruments. This is very important for changing Midi data (eg. specific note/velocity scaling, musical algorithms, chords, latch, ...) before it is sent to the synth. Possibly this can already be done by the sequence of instruments, I'm not sure. 3. Patch name refresh almost for Behringer Deepmind and Moog Sub37. A synth without patch name refresh is useless, because you always change or create a patch. 4. Manual editing of the Patch Name lists for a synth. Thank you. Best regards.
edited Mar 28 at 7:18 am

More synths. I miss ...

Do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of synths but those are not included, or do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of definition presets for 3rd party synths ?

Possibility to link MIDI VST Plugins into the Midi flow of a layer before the instruments.

This of course is mission critical for any "advanced" use. I use Reaper with a large set of scripts I did, fo create a live playing "instrument" with lots of patches. It would be completely unusable without the ability to use Midi Filters. In fact I don't use VSTs but "JSFX" plugins, most of which I created myself. In this forum here there was a discussion on providing the ability to do something like this natively within Camelot. In fact your request for Midi Fliter VSTs is perfectly viable, as there is a free VST by Cockos (the Reaper company) that allows to "convert" JSFXes to VSTs.

-Michael

> More synths. I miss ... Do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of synths but those are not included, or do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of definition presets for 3rd party synths ? > Possibility to link MIDI VST Plugins into the Midi flow of a layer before the instruments. This of course is mission critical for any "advanced" use. I use Reaper with a large set of scripts I did, fo create a live playing "instrument" with lots of patches. It would be completely unusable without the ability to use Midi Filters. In fact I don't use VSTs but "JSFX" plugins, most of which I created myself. In this forum here there was a discussion on providing the ability to do something like this natively within Camelot. In fact your request for Midi Fliter VSTs is perfectly viable, as there is a free VST by Cockos (the Reaper company) that allows to "convert" JSFXes to VSTs. -Michael
edited Mar 28 at 5:41 am

Do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of synths but those are not included, or do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of definition presets for 3rd party synths ?

Don't understand correctly.
I mean explicit support (patch name list and refresh) for many actual important HW synths is yet missing.

This of course is mission critical for any "advanced" use. I use Reaper with a large set of scripts I did, fo create a live playing "instrument" with lots of patches. It would be completely unusable without the ability to use Midi Filters. In fact I don't use VSTs but "JSFX" plugins, most of which I created myself. In this forum here there was a discussion on providing the ability to do something like this natively within Camelot. In fact your request for Midi Fliter VSTs is perfectly viable, as there is a free VST by Cockos (the Reaper company) that allows to "convert" JSFXes to VSTs.

Yes, JSFX plugins are interesting. I use the old MIDI plugins of pizmidi. They are yet very useful.

I think the manufacturers of today tend to underestimate the importance of "old" pure MIDI for making music. And they underestimate that there are yet people who look after the sole MIDI features of software.

best regards

> Do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of synths but those are not included, or do you suggest Camelot comes with a number of definition presets for 3rd party synths ? Don't understand correctly. I mean explicit support (patch name list and refresh) for many actual important HW synths is yet missing. > This of course is mission critical for any "advanced" use. I use Reaper with a large set of scripts I did, fo create a live playing "instrument" with lots of patches. It would be completely unusable without the ability to use Midi Filters. In fact I don't use VSTs but "JSFX" plugins, most of which I created myself. In this forum here there was a discussion on providing the ability to do something like this natively within Camelot. In fact your request for Midi Fliter VSTs is perfectly viable, as there is a free VST by Cockos (the Reaper company) that allows to "convert" JSFXes to VSTs. Yes, JSFX plugins are interesting. I use the old MIDI plugins of pizmidi. They are yet very useful. I think the manufacturers of today tend to underestimate the importance of "old" pure MIDI for making music. And they underestimate that there are yet people who look after the sole MIDI features of software. best regards
edited Mar 28 at 7:30 am

Hi @SynthPlayer,

  1. more synths and device are yet to come. It's not simple at all integrating the various SysEx "slangs" into one organic interface... but we are making it ;-)

  2. they are on our roadmap, just matter of time.

  3. Unfortunately, those synths do not allow to get the patch names through SysEx call. The only way to do it is a manual dump.

  4. That's already implemented, for synths that do not support name refresh. Just click on the right arrow next to the patch name.

Best!

Hi @SynthPlayer, 1. more synths and device are yet to come. It's not simple at all integrating the various SysEx "slangs" into one organic interface... but we are making it ;-) 2. they are on our roadmap, just matter of time. 3. Unfortunately, those synths do not allow to get the patch names through SysEx call. The only way to do it is a manual dump. 4. That's already implemented, for synths that do not support name refresh. Just click on the right arrow next to the patch name. Best!

I mean explicit support (patch name list and refresh) for many actual important HW synths is yet missing.

Is it not possible to use plugins that are not in the "list" that comes with Camelot ? Not allowing a user to craft his own integration for his preferred synths seems decently inappropriate.

-Michael

> I mean explicit support (patch name list and refresh) for many actual important HW synths is yet missing. Is it not possible to use plugins that are not in the "list" that comes with Camelot ? Not allowing a user to craft his own integration for his preferred synths seems decently inappropriate. -Michael
edited Mar 28 at 8:33 pm

@mschnell, what are you saying? We are speaking about direct integration of Hardware Synths, not plugins. For direct integration I mean the ability to query the machine fo the patch-list and hardware settings (like local off, global MIDI channel, BankSelect/ProgramChange send & receive, and so on): this is far beyond that simple, indeed nobody out there, except us, is doing anything similar.

Of course, you can control any Hardware Synth through standard MIDI messages and select patches through BankSelect/ProgramChange numbers... but it's far than immediate: you need to know the BS/PC numbers for any patch of each synth you want to control.

Software instrument plugins are fully supported with the following formats:

  • Audio Units, VST, VST3 on macOS

  • VST, VST3 on Windows

  • AUv3 on iPad

@mschnell, what are you saying? We are speaking about direct integration of Hardware Synths, not plugins. For direct integration I mean the ability to query the machine fo the patch-list and hardware settings (like local off, global MIDI channel, BankSelect/ProgramChange send & receive, and so on): this is far beyond that simple, indeed nobody out there, except us, is doing anything similar. Of course, you can control any Hardware Synth through standard MIDI messages and select patches through BankSelect/ProgramChange numbers... but it's far than immediate: you need to know the BS/PC numbers for any patch of each synth you want to control. Software instrument plugins are fully supported with the following formats: - Audio Units, VST, VST3 on macOS - VST, VST3 on Windows - AUv3 on iPad
edited Mar 31 at 2:57 pm

Ah !! Thanks for making this clear !
I in fact did not believe that my suspicion would be true but I wanted a factual statement.
Regarding HW synths, I am neither knowledgeable nor much interested, but allowing the user to do his own integration seems like desirable. If it's always possible to edit the parameters associated with such a synth (such as patch names) it seems OK for me.

-Michael

Ah !! Thanks for making this clear ! I in fact did not believe that my suspicion would be true but I wanted a factual statement. Regarding HW synths, I am neither knowledgeable nor much interested, but allowing the user to do his own integration seems like desirable. If it's always possible to edit the parameters associated with such a synth (such as patch names) it seems OK for me. -Michael
edited Apr 2 at 5:46 am
  1. more synths and device are yet to come. It's not simple at all integrating the various SysEx "slangs" into one organic interface... but we are making it ;-)

  2. they are on our roadmap, just matter of time.

  3. Unfortunately, those synths do not allow to get the patch names through SysEx call. The only way to do it is a manual dump.

  4. That's already implemented, for synths that do not support name refresh. Just click on the right arrow next to the patch name.

Hi @admin

thank you, good to hear.

to 3.: then please make a function that waits for and receives a manual send/dump from the synth. Otherwise, it's really stupid to manually enter all patch names.

to 4.: Sorry I missed that.
But I meant to edit some form of a patch name list as a whole.
This would be much better then to clicking on the arrow, then entering the name, then clicking back for many changes.

br

> 1. more synths and device are yet to come. It's not simple at all integrating the various SysEx "slangs" into one organic interface... but we are making it ;-) > 2. they are on our roadmap, just matter of time. >3. Unfortunately, those synths do not allow to get the patch names through SysEx call. The only way to do it is a manual dump. >4. That's already implemented, for synths that do not support name refresh. Just click on the right arrow next to the patch name. Hi @admin thank you, good to hear. to 3.: then please make a function that waits for and receives a manual send/dump from the synth. Otherwise, it's really stupid to manually enter all patch names. to 4.: Sorry I missed that. But I meant to edit some form of a patch name list as a whole. This would be much better then to clicking on the arrow, then entering the name, then clicking back for many changes. br
edited Apr 13 at 12:32 pm
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