Solo Woodwinds
Problem with Flutes Version 2.8.3 64 Bit PC

I upgraded the "Flutes" from 2.8.2 to 2.8.3 64 Bit PC.

In my "Live" project, I use "Concert", "Alto", and "Bass" in three different tracks of the DAW (Reaper). I mute and ummute these tracks for switching between these (and other) sound engines.

I play the instruments using a keyboard and a TEC BBC V2. The parameter setting of the three instances are rather similar and the Midi processing for them is identical.

Everything did work perfectly with v 2.8.2

After upgrading to 2.8.3, I encounter a very wired problem. The "Concert" Flute still works perfectly, but the "Alto" and "Bass" instances feature hanging notes all the time. Seemingly many key release Midi events are not adhered to. After just a few moments of playing, I can create a sound just by blowing without pressing a key. If I press and release a single key while keeping on blowing, I get a "trill".

Any help ?
-Michael

I upgraded the "Flutes" from 2.8.2 to 2.8.3 64 Bit PC. In my "Live" project, I use "Concert", "Alto", and "Bass" in three different tracks of the DAW (Reaper). I mute and ummute these tracks for switching between these (and other) sound engines. I play the instruments using a keyboard and a TEC BBC V2. The parameter setting of the three instances are rather similar and the Midi processing for them is identical. Everything did work perfectly with v 2.8.2 After upgrading to 2.8.3, I encounter a very wired problem. The "Concert" Flute still works perfectly, but the "Alto" and "Bass" instances feature hanging notes all the time. Seemingly many key release Midi events are not adhered to. After just a few moments of playing, I can create a sound just by blowing without pressing a key. If I press and release a single key while keeping on blowing, I get a "trill". Any help ? -Michael
edited Apr 10 at 5:36 am

I dont have project with alto and bass flute as you described, but I tested alto flute which works without problem. But I have tested only two instances.

Try check if something not coming from midi. Try block all incoming midi mesages (from midi hardware). For example my old midi keyboard somethimes send pitchwheel mesages and then it sounds like instruments is going out of tune.

But I discover another problem for me. For example when I open AltoFlute GUI, the keoboard is without greyed area to show range and keyswitches. And instead instrument name it show number, when I click to any GUI knob, or slider, graphisc and instrument name goes back.

I dont have project with alto and bass flute as you described, but I tested alto flute which works without problem. But I have tested only two instances. Try check if something not coming from midi. Try block all incoming midi mesages (from midi hardware). For example my old midi keyboard somethimes send pitchwheel mesages and then it sounds like instruments is going out of tune. But I discover another problem for me. For example when I open AltoFlute GUI, the keoboard is without greyed area to show range and keyswitches. And instead instrument name it show number, when I click to any GUI knob, or slider, graphisc and instrument name goes back.

Very weird, as well .

Regarding the Midi input: The Flutes all worked perfectly before the upgrade, and after the update the problem immediately was there. So if there would be a problem with the Midi input it would have been ignored by the previous version of the SWAM engine, and also by the Concert Flute. This does not seem very likely.

-Michael

Very weird, as well . Regarding the Midi input: The Flutes all worked perfectly before the upgrade, and after the update the problem immediately was there. So if there would be a problem with the Midi input it would have been ignored by the previous version of the SWAM engine, and also by the Concert Flute. This does not seem very likely. -Michael

Hi @mschnell , we have opened the possibility to receive expression from different MIDI channels at the same time. This shouldn't have impacted on MIDI notes.
Could you please provide MIDI sequence to reproduce the issue?

Hi @mschnell , we have opened the possibility to receive expression from different MIDI channels at the same time. This shouldn't have impacted on MIDI notes. Could you please provide MIDI sequence to reproduce the issue?

I'll re-check what happens regarding the Midi channel(s) in this setting(s) and (at least for a test) make sure that only one Midi channel is passed to SWAM. I'll let you know about the results.

-Michael

I'll re-check what happens regarding the Midi channel(s) in this setting(s) and (at least for a test) make sure that only one Midi channel is passed to SWAM. I'll let you know about the results. -Michael

I did some more tests, and the problem seems to be some weird combination of influences in my setup. I did some modifications and right now everything works as it should. I keep on watching.

I feel that the sound is generally improved (even more natural) regarding the previous version.

Nonetheless I am not sure that I like the new version better.

As you might remember, with the previous versions, I (ab-)uses the "Style" parameter - remote-controlled by the "Bite" action of the "Breath and Bite" controller - to get a kind of "Blowing angle" effect with increasing sharpness. With the new Version of the Flute, the same parameter (same slider location in the GUI, same DAW parameter ID) now creates a rather dull sound effect. Interestingly as well the 2.8.2 as the 2.8.3 manual provide a contradicting text for this slider. Its named "Modal Res" in the picture of the GUI but "Style" in the text and a small dedicated picture.

I found that the effect I'd like to create in fact is available with the new version by activating "Overblowing" (key switch D#) and using a rather high expression. (With the older version the "Overblowing" switch only toggled between 2nd and 3rd harmonic, which is nice as well.) The new functionality in fact is nice, as it's very easily playable, but of course separately controlling the "style" by a dedicated (mouth-controlled) parameter is a lot more flexible.

-Michael

I did some more tests, and the problem seems to be some weird combination of influences in my setup. I did some modifications and right now everything works as it should. I keep on watching. I feel that the sound is generally improved (even more natural) regarding the previous version. Nonetheless I am not sure that I like the new version better. As you might remember, with the previous versions, I (ab-)uses the "Style" parameter - remote-controlled by the "Bite" action of the "Breath and Bite" controller - to get a kind of "Blowing angle" effect with increasing sharpness. With the new Version of the Flute, the same parameter (same slider location in the GUI, same DAW parameter ID) now creates a rather dull sound effect. Interestingly as well the 2.8.2 as the 2.8.3 manual provide a contradicting text for this slider. Its named "Modal Res" in the picture of the GUI but "Style" in the text and a small dedicated picture. I found that the effect I'd like to create in fact is available with the new version by activating "Overblowing" (key switch D#) and using a rather high expression. (With the older version the "Overblowing" switch only toggled between 2nd and 3rd harmonic, which is nice as well.) The new functionality in fact is nice, as it's very easily playable, but of course separately controlling the "style" by a dedicated (mouth-controlled) parameter is a lot more flexible. -Michael
edited Apr 16 at 5:45 am

Maybe I find a way to handle the overblow switch by the Bite control, even though the simple ob/off still is less flexible than thy countinous "style" parameter had been.

-Michael

Maybe I find a way to handle the overblow switch by the Bite control, even though the simple ob/off still is less flexible than thy countinous "style" parameter had been. -Michael

@mschnell from 2.8.2 to 2.8.3 we haven't changed any instrument behavior! And we just change very very slightly the pipe resonance, nothing really perceivable.

The only thing we have done is renaming the labels of the parameters exposed to a DAW.

Maybe this caused your DAW messing up with parameter names?
I suggest to check what happens starting from a clean instance.

Please let me know.

BTW, this is the complete changelog from 2.8.2 to 2.8.3:

  • New: microtuning can be controlled through SysEx by Yamaha PSR-A3000 and generic controller
  • New: minor sound improvements
  • New: enabled "Learn" for Aftertouch in MIDI mapping page
  • Improved slide (CC74) for MPE devices (Seaboard, LinnStrument, ...)
  • Fix: GUI not showing correctly under some circumstances
  • Fix: wrong value for "Attack Sens." and "Transit.Time" under some circumnstances (especially for Cubase on Windows)
  • Fix: Vibrato Depth not working with automations
  • Fix: refactoring of all parameter names and values shown by DAWs for automation
  • Fix: hidden non-automatable parameters
  • Fix: CC74 mapping for non-MPE devices
  • Fix: enabled expression control from any MIDI channel
@mschnell from 2.8.2 to 2.8.3 we haven't changed any instrument behavior! And we just change very very slightly the pipe resonance, nothing really perceivable. The only thing we have done is renaming the labels of the parameters exposed to a DAW. Maybe this caused your DAW messing up with parameter names? I suggest to check what happens starting from a clean instance. Please let me know. BTW, this is the complete changelog from 2.8.2 to 2.8.3: - New: microtuning can be controlled through SysEx by Yamaha PSR-A3000 and generic controller - New: minor sound improvements - New: enabled "Learn" for Aftertouch in MIDI mapping page - Improved slide (CC74) for MPE devices (Seaboard, LinnStrument, ...) - Fix: GUI not showing correctly under some circumstances - Fix: wrong value for "Attack Sens." and "Transit.Time" under some circumnstances (especially for Cubase on Windows) - Fix: Vibrato Depth not working with automations - Fix: refactoring of all parameter names and values shown by DAWs for automation - Fix: hidden non-automatable parameters - Fix: CC74 mapping for non-MPE devices - Fix: enabled expression control from any MIDI channel

Thanks a lot for clarification.

I'll give this a try !
-Michael

Thanks a lot for clarification. I'll give this a try ! -Michael

Sorry for the delay.

After some modificationś to my setup and the new updated of the Flute, I don't seem to have a problem with hanging notes any more with the Concert, Alto, and Bass Flute (I did not check the Piccolo).

Regarding the issue with the "Style" parameter (that I happily used to remote-control via the "Bite" force of the Breath controller) I need to confirm that this does not work any more with the newer versions of the Flute. It may be that I missed an intermediate update and the "Style" was only available with an older version. I did not try to re-install such for verification.

The current manual shows this slider:
5cd6b5a81ff7d

A long time ago in the "Sample Modeling" Forum we had a long discussion about (ab-)using the "Style" Model parameter for Real Time playing.

In fact the current implementation the Remote controlling of the DAW parameter (which I configured back then to control the "Style" ) now controls the "Modal Res" slider in the GUI, and in fact the parameter name shown by the DAW reads "Modal Resonace". I do suppose the the DAW kept the parameter number with the upgrade of the VST. So the parameter name may or may not have been changed, but the association to the Slider did change.

Now there in fact is a DAW Parameter called "Style" - while back then there was no Parameter with such a name and I needed use a completely differently named parameter for this - , but automating same does not affect the "Style" Slider in the GUI but the "Harm. Struct" setting.

In fact the "Overblow" Parameter, that is correctly named in the GUI and the parameter list, is a nice target for what I have in mind with the "Bite", but unfortunately this is just an on/off action and not a continuous model parameter.

Especially with the Bass Flute the "Style" is a very desirable and effective continuous performance parameter - as well with "Overblow" ON and OFF (which is nicely realtime-controllable by the appropriate key switches).

Can you disclose the correct parameter name for "Style" or provide an update that does feature the "Style" Slider as a DAW parameter ?

-Michael

Sorry for the delay. After some modificationÅ› to my setup and the new updated of the Flute, I don't seem to have a problem with hanging notes any more with the Concert, Alto, and Bass Flute (I did not check the Piccolo). Regarding the issue with the "Style" parameter (that I happily used to remote-control via the "Bite" force of the Breath controller) I need to confirm that this does not work any more with the newer versions of the Flute. It may be that I missed an intermediate update and the "Style" was only available with an older version. I did not try to re-install such for verification. The current manual shows this slider: ![5cd6b5a81ff7d](serve/attachment&path=5cd6b5a81ff7d) A long time ago in the "Sample Modeling" Forum we had a long discussion about (ab-)using the "Style" Model parameter for Real Time playing. In fact the current implementation the Remote controlling of the DAW parameter (which I configured back then to control the "Style" ) now controls the "Modal Res" slider in the GUI, and in fact the parameter name shown by the DAW reads "Modal Resonace". I do suppose the the DAW kept the parameter number with the upgrade of the VST. So the parameter name may or may not have been changed, but the association to the Slider did change. Now there in fact is a DAW Parameter called "Style" - while back then there was no Parameter with such a name and I needed use a completely differently named parameter for this - , but automating same does not affect the "Style" Slider in the GUI but the "Harm. Struct" setting. In fact the "Overblow" Parameter, that is correctly named in the GUI and the parameter list, is a nice target for what I have in mind with the "Bite", but unfortunately this is just an on/off action and not a continuous model parameter. Especially with the Bass Flute the "Style" is a very desirable and effective continuous performance parameter - as well with "Overblow" ON and OFF (which is nicely realtime-controllable by the appropriate key switches). Can you disclose the correct parameter name for "Style" or provide an update that does feature the "Style" Slider as a DAW parameter ? -Michael
edited May 14 at 5:26 am

Hi @mschnell,

we will check and back to you soon, it is possible that you have found a bug.

Best.

Hi @mschnell, we will check and back to you soon, it is possible that you have found a bug. Best.

Hi again @mschnell,

we have checked and there have been a little mess, definitely...

The "Harm.Struct" parameter exposed to the DAW is controlling the "Style" slider, while the "Style" parameter exposed to the DAW is controlling the "Harm.Struct".

Sorry for the mess, we are already on it and it will be fixed in the next upcoming update.

Best

Hi again @mschnell, we have checked and there have been a little mess, definitely... The "Harm.Struct" parameter exposed to the DAW is controlling the "Style" slider, while the "Style" parameter exposed to the DAW is controlling the "Harm.Struct". Sorry for the mess, we are already on it and it will be fixed in the next upcoming update. Best
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